To Hawsepipe or not to hawsepipe??

[Kingrobby]

Well, to start with I have my MMC, TWIC, and BST. I have been looking for work as a wiper/deckhand and have even had Capt. Sweeney helping me as well, but so far no luck. I am wondering if it would be better, in these rough times, to just suck up the costs and get into a program like PMI's workboat academy, or Seattle Maritime's Marine Engineeing Techonology program? As opposed to working a low paying wiper/deckhand job that may just be seasonal, aka American Cruise Lines.

With PMI you come out as a Mate after 2yrs, and with Seattle Maritime you end as a QMED after 1yr, I think. Both of which I assume would make me more hireable. I would really prefer Engineering, but a mate job doesnt sound too bad, and I could always take some engineering courses in my off time. Also, headed to SIU to chat with them this week. Any thoughts from some experienced folks.

[Ordinaryseaman]

Get whatever training you can- you can never have too many licenses/endorsements

a word of caution- while PMI and the workboat academy are great-

you still need to get someone to hire you/work around your schedule for the workboat academy- I've been trying to get in for a while.

Secondly- PMI fills up fast- you should also talk to Vic Tufts at Mitags- PMI's sister operation in Baltimore.

Lastly-Danzante and Dougpine both work at PMI- you might give them a PM.

[RDEagan]

I would love to shoot for PMI or MITAGS, but the cost is a bit prohibitive. I spent alot of time on the sites today and over the 2 years it's almost $20K plus living expenses ($26K minus stipend). I don't see how I could recoup that in a timely manner when I look at the payrates for Mates. Am I missing something, or is the cost the reason why Piney Point has a 2 year waiting list.. it only costs around $1500.

Ryan

[trekleader]

As opposed to working a low paying wiper/deckhand job that may just be seasonal...

Hey just a couple points...

A Mariner needs 180 days for QMED. You could do that after a single season, if you play your cards right. Not bad for a low paying seasonal wiper job.

The Seattle Maritime program is great, as is the Workboat Mate Program. I'm just saying...

[Ordinaryseaman]

Couple of things- IF you can find someone to sponsor you (hire you) for PMI/ Mitags you may get paid a lot more while going through the programs(s)

The two cadets who I have asked about pay made $120 and $180 (a day)respectively. Versus a couple hundred a month cadet at Piney Point. In other words- they made as much per week as an SIU cadet gets a month

As far as housing- I know a kid who traded working the desk at a hostel a few hours aweek- for a free bunk- and I know another guy who did part time work on an old boat- for free rent. I've gotten free rent in Hawaii in exchange for doing house work for older folks- found the gigs on craigslist.

Also- you don't have to pay all that money upfront. You can pay some ($4k-$5k?) upfront- and make enough for your next payment while working/learning on your company vessel.

Mate pay isn't good? Huh? It's better than AB Special pay!

Sometimes- it's MUCH better. Especially if you have towing and other endorsements. If you have a mate's license you can sail as AB- but not vice versa.

OP- as far as American Cruiselines- you might be able to get them- or Cruisewest to sponsor you for PMI once you have some time on deck.

Cruisewest- and small cruise ships in general- have a HARD time getting entry level mates who will work for them- and have practical experience.

PMI has had cadets on cruise ships for Lindblad Expeditions, Majestic America- and perhaps others.

In this economy- if you have zip for experience- Cruisewest and American MAY be the only ones who will hire you for deck- it's a lot easier to get a job once you have a little seatime and experience.

I don't know much about the qmed program- but I sailed with an Aux Watch on the Ocean Phoenix who did it- he liked it.

For anyone reading- if you are under 25- you can get a FREE AB (special) or QMED through Job Corps in Astoria Oregon- they pay for everything- even housing.

[Jemplayer]

What sections of the industry have you been looking at where a 500 ton mates pay rates don't pay off?

The last year has been real hard everywhere, but when things where going down here in the Gulf, Mates on workboats where making $100k+ working 28/14.

Plus have you looked at how much it cost to get every class done on your own? $20k starts to look like a bargain.

But before you plunk down your money you need to decide which path your want to go deck or engine. You don't want to get half way through the classes and decide that it's not for you. Also this job is hard enough, why get stuck in the wheel house when you really want to be playing in the engine room?

[RDEagan]

What sections of the industry have you been looking at where a 500 ton mates pay rates don't pay off?

The last year has been real hard everywhere, but when things where going down here in the Gulf, Mates on workboats where making $100k+ working 28/14.

Plus have you looked at how much it cost to get every class done on your own? $20k starts to look like a bargain.

But before you plunk down your money you need to decide which path your want to go deck or engine. You don't want to get half way through the classes and decide that it's not for you. Also this job is hard enough, why get stuck in the wheel house when you really want to be playing in the engine room?

I'm definitely a deck guy. Dated a snipe once in the Navy and she scarred me for life

Ryan

[Kingrobby]

Hey just a couple points...

A Mariner needs 180 days for QMED. You could do that after a single season, if you play your cards right. Not bad for a low paying seasonal wiper job.

The Seattle Maritime program is great, as is the Workboat Mate Program. I'm just saying...

I know you need the 180 days, but don't you also need someone who is correctly licensed to sign off on your assessments too? I heard that is hard to have done sometimes. Or can you just go take the QMED test & the ratings test after 180days, pass and call it good?

Seattle Maritime is $6500 for 9months training(30days at sea) & 60days at sea internship and at the end you will "staisfy the requirements for QMED, ratings oiler, junior engineer, refrigerating engineer, electrician, and pump man, and RFPEW", which I assume means that you then need to go see the USCG and test for all of those afterwards.

I am signed up for there orientation the 1st week of March, so I will find out all the answers then. Now I am off to see the SIU guys and talk with them.

[camthrop]

If you are interested in the Workboat Mate program, PMI is going to be your only shot now. MITAGS isn't running the program anymore, a lot of east coast towing companies bailed on the program. Actually now that I think about it, GMATS has a similar program, worth looking into as well.

[RDEagan]

Well I guess that answers MY question. I sent Dougpine a PM about the differences between the PMI and MITAGS workboat mate programs. I guess the answer is: PMI has one and MITAGS doesn't. :/

Ryan

[RDEagan]

Being the obsessive compulsive researcher that I am, I just went to I think every page of the GMATS site and couldn't find a program comparable to the workboat program at PMI/MITAGS. Do they only offer individual courses? Also, while I'm thinking about it, besides Piney Point which I'm familiar with, are there any other programs that offer comprehensive training along those lines as opposed to individual courses? I'm too old for the Academies I'm sure, but PMI-type schools appeal to me.

Thanks in advance.

Ryan

[YoungEngineer]

Just food for thought if you would like to Hawsepipe it on the engine room side. There are companies hiring unlicensed engineers in the GOM (wiper,oiler,etc.) After 180 days as stated you can go to the USCG and just take your QMED exam, and get your oiler ticket. Go to http://www.hawsepipe.net to order your CD and study on your off time. This will start you out on the right path. Most who don't have experiance start as what we call an Deck-n-eeer. 2 weeks deck hand duty and 2 weeks engine room duties. Until the person who is your supervisor feels like you can take the reins and run the steel horse. You next step is your RFPEW/RFPNW depending on your company this can be like riding the cap rail to the back deck landing on your A$$. However it can be done. Then comes a whole bunch of CFR's and stuff you don't need to know about till you get your ticket. So if you don't have the $$$ or time for school, hawsepiping it is not a bad gig. A deck-n-eer in the GOM can make up to $200 per day. I hope this helps you out to make the right choice.

FIX IT OR GO HOME

[Kingrobby]

Just food for thought if you would like to Hawsepipe it on the engine room side. There are companies hiring unlicensed engineers in the GOM (wiper,oiler,etc.) After 180 days as stated you can go to the USCG and just take your QMED exam, and get your oiler ticket. Go to http://www.hawsepipe.net to order your CD and study on your off time. This will start you out on the right path. Most who don't have experiance start as what we call an Deck-n-eeer. 2 weeks deck hand duty and 2 weeks engine room duties. Until the person who is your supervisor feels like you can take the reins and run the steel horse. You next step is your RFPEW/RFPNW depending on your company this can be like riding the cap rail to the back deck landing on your A$$. However it can be done. Then comes a whole bunch of CFR's and stuff you don't need to know about till you get your ticket. So if you don't have the $$$ or time for school, hawsepiping it is not a bad gig. A deck-n-eer in the GOM can make up to $200 per day. I hope this helps you out to make the right choice.

FIX IT OR GO HOME

That plan sounds good, IF & thats a big if, you can get hired in this economy ..... you can get your assessments signed off & get someone to teach you some stuff.

[camthrop]

http://gmats.usmma.edu/

Scroll down the page until you find the Mate 500/1600 ton program. That's the one.

[Ordinaryseaman]

Thanks for the info

I'm curious about the part where the company has to have 8 people in the program- as well as the assertion that demand for mariners continues too grow... but- good to see another option is out there.

[Cal]

There is a cost break involved for doing the CAP instead of the individual courses, that's why the require 8 students. The CAP itself is a CG approved course and there are some sea service equivalencies that are granted as part of the program that aren't part of the individual courses. Without double checking the regs I think a 500T license requires 1,080 days of service and CAP is a 2 1/2 year program that was designed to take someone fresh off the street and have them meet all of the requirements for a license during that time. So the service requirement reduction is substantial.

If you want a breakdown of the GMATS courses that comprise the CAP program, or any other questions about the program, let me know.

[jdcavo]

Being the obsessive compulsive researcher that I am, I just went to I think every page of the GMATS site and couldn't find a program comparable to the workboat program at PMI/MITAGS. Do they only offer individual courses? Also, while I'm thinking about it, besides Piney Point which I'm familiar with, are there any other programs that offer comprehensive training along those lines as opposed to individual courses? I'm too old for the Academies I'm sure, but PMI-type schools appeal to me.

Thanks in advance.

Ryan

The GMATS program is similar in that they have similar courses and there is an option to take a complete program or component courses and ther is training aboard commercial towing vessels in the "program." However I do not beleive GMATS has internship/placement agreeements with companies, instead companies send their personnel to GMATS. So you'd probably hvae to get hired by a company and have them send you for the "program."

[Cal]

The GMATS program is similar in that they have similar courses and there is an option to take a complete program or component courses and ther is training aboard commercial towing vessels in the "program." However I do not beleive GMATS has internship/placement agreeements with companies, instead companies send their personnel to GMATS. So you'd probably hvae to get hired by a company and have them send you for the "program."

That's the way it worked for us, although all of us were already working for either McAllister or Reinauer. Some of the RFPNW, OICNW, and pretty much all of the TOAR were completed onboard.

I know that they run NOAA cadets through, but these are their absolute cream of the crop already have 4 year degree folks that they want as officers.

It is a great program, but with the economy the way it is, I don't see many companies investing that kind of time, money, or effort into anyone. There are some big players that probably still have the ability, but I don't know about the desire.