Evaluation Problems

[mike50]

I got my Dear John letter from the Nmc the other day.I'm trying to get approved for 500T master nc testing. The Nmc will not take my seatime from my last employer, saying that the vessel I served on was classified as a towing vessel and since I do'nt have a towing endorsement the time can't be used. The vessels were not used as towing vessels,only for supply,parts and passenger transfers.My eval. lady told me the only thing I could do is get a letter from the company stating this and send it back to them.These vessels were at Naval Station Ingleside,old landing craft with bows welded on. Also the Nmc just renewed my current 150 masters nc in Sept. 09 with the same sea service letter.Please correct me if I'm wrong, can I not be the master on a vessel that is classified as a towing vessel,as long as that said vessel is not engaged in towing? Thanks for any and all info.

Mike

[rwells78]

The definition of a towing vessel in US law is this 'towing vessel'' means a commercial vessel engaged in or intending to engage in the service of pulling, pushing, or hauling along side, or any combination of pulling, pushing, or hauling along side.

I suspect the boat owner listed the service as Towing on the Certificate of Documentation or state registration to both allow them to tow as well as keep the vessel uninspected by the USCG. From your description of the use of these vessels, they do not sound like you were engaged in towing, but what did the owner intend?? They DO sound like a small passenger vessel or freight ship that DOES require USCG inspection.

You may have stepped into a real smelly pile of "stuff"! Be careful and good luck.

Former USCG marine inspector/investigator

[mike50]

These vessels are US Navy vessels.I also have a copy of an email from a LCD with the Coast Guard in Corpus Christi,Tx that states no license is required to operate these vessels,because they are public vessels and were not being used commercially.The only work done with them was supplies,parts and passenger transfers.I got all my paper work faxed back to them today.What is odd, is they just renewed my current license in Sept. 09 with the exact same sea service letter.

Mike

[10talents]

Mike, there was a good debate in December over similar issue with Tug being used for military purposes. Check it out at Two Month Job to deliver US Armed Services Vessel to the Middle East
Maybe you can find some help there.
Also recommend you go straight to 1600GRT as I hear the 500GRT ticket is being done away with.

[Azimuth]

Mike, there was a good debate in December over similar issue with Tug being used for military purposes. Check it out at Two Month Job to deliver US Armed Services Vessel to the Middle East
Maybe you can find some help there.
Also recommend you go straight to 1600GRT as I hear the 500GRT ticket is being done away with.

I believe that if you have a 500 ton ticket you will be upgraded to a 1600 ton ticket at your next renewal after this goes into effect.

[Jeffrox]

What is odd, is they just renewed my current license in Sept. 09 with the exact same sea service letter.

Mike

That's not odd, that's par for the course.

[Conspearasea]

I believe that if you have a 500 ton ticket you will be upgraded to a 1600 ton ticket at your next renewal after this goes into effect.

Thats what I read in the proposed ammendments, And the new tonnage requirements for upgrading to the 1600 GRT will drop to 75GRT, thus enabling the 100 ton guys a way to upgrade.

Thats my take thus far.....

[water]

It looks like they will continue to renew 500 T licenses only. Here's from the proposed rule changes:

"11.410............... regarding the credential authorizing service on vessels of not more than 500 GRT/1,200 GT. No original endorsement with this tonnage, or a raise of grade to this tonnage, will be issued; however, renewals will continue to be issued."

Hope that helps.

[10talents]

It looks like they will continue to renew 500 T licenses only. Here's from the proposed rule changes:

"11.410............... regarding the credential authorizing service on vessels of not more than 500 GRT/1,200 GT. No original endorsement with this tonnage, or a raise of grade to this tonnage, will be issued; however, renewals will continue to be issued."

Hope that helps.

Take it from someone who has had a 500GRT Ticket a long time. "Bigger is Better" if you can get it.

[stevefoster]

It looks like they will continue to renew 500 T licenses only. Here's from the proposed rule changes:

"11.410............... regarding the credential authorizing service on vessels of not more than 500 GRT/1,200 GT. No original endorsement with this tonnage, or a raise of grade to this tonnage, will be issued; however, renewals will continue to be issued."

Hope that helps.

Sounds like 500 tonners won't be grandfathered to 1600 ton if the CG will continue to renew the 500 ton license.

[captfish]

It looks like they will continue to renew 500 T licenses only. Here's from the proposed rule changes:

"11.410............... regarding the credential authorizing service on vessels of not more than 500 GRT/1,200 GT. No original endorsement with this tonnage, or a raise of grade to this tonnage, will be issued; however, renewals will continue to be issued."

Hope that helps.

The section of the proposed rules on the future of the 500 ton license was very difficult for me to figure out. My understanding was that right now there is no ITC equivliancy for the 500 Ton license. Now the USCG says that they are going to do away with the 500 ton license, but they are also finally giving it an ITC equiv. (1200)??? Sounds like the 200/500 is here to stay, so...the path would be something like 100 to 200/500 to 1600/3000? Is anybody clear on this? DANZANTE??

[78BM98]

Mike, the vessel you are refering to MAY be similar to one I operated in the Navy Keywest in the 80's. If so, this may help: Welded onto the transom is a number 50WBxxxx. This is a 50 foot "workboat". If resubmitted as such, maybe it will help. We used them for pilot transfers, moving camels, small ship docking, cargo and personnel transfers.

[Conspearasea]

Page 46 of the proposed changes, 11.410 shows the equivalency of 500GRT and 1200 GT.......

Way it reads is that people who have 500 GRT licenses issued prior to the {effective ruling date} will be able to upgrade to 1600 GRT, with proof of 6 months sea service on vessels....75GRT or greater for the MATE upgrade...OR...150 GRT or greater for the MASTERS upgrade.

Prior sea service may be used in the upgrading whether or not it was used to obtain the 500 GRT.

Anybody who qualifies for a 500 Master, probably better get it now if you don't have it......If all you qualify for is a mate, it sounds as though you are already stuck in the OICNW trap anyways, and will be taking a ton of training courses.

I imagine w/ the wording of this new ruling, most guys who hold a 500 masters GRT would be able to qualify for a 1600 GRT Masters, but some might be held to the 1600 mates if they didnt have time on >150GRT.

[mike50]

Mike, the vessel you are refering to MAY be similar to one I operated in the Navy Keywest in the 80's. If so, this may help: Welded onto the transom is a number 50WBxxxx. This is a 50 foot "workboat". If resubmitted as such, maybe it will help. We used them for pilot transfers, moving camels, small ship docking, cargo and personnel transfers.

Sounds like the exact vessel.They had push knees welded on the bow.

[CaptAndrew]

The way I read it there will be no more 500grt issued. Existing 500grt will be grandfathered at the same level and given an ITC equivalent tonnage. If you change grade or scope you have to meet ALL the requirements for the new level. So if you have a 500ton you will keep it forever or spend a lot of money and time. Same requirements for upgrade from 200grt you have to meet all requirements. And the 100grt also now will have an ITC equivalent tonnage.

[jdcavo]

I believe that if you have a 500 ton ticket you will be upgraded to a 1600 ton ticket at your next renewal after this goes into effect.

That is in the proposed rule. It's not final. And there is still time to comment on the proposed rule.

[water]

That is in the proposed rule. It's not final. And there is still time to comment on the proposed rule.

Will the USCG give mariners advanced warning of what date the final rule changes will go into effect?

[Conspearasea]

Will the USCG give mariners advanced warning of what date the final rule changes will go into effect?

And the million dollar question is.........

I would think that the advanced warning will be posting of the effective date, NOW how much time between the two dates will be seen.

I've heard speculation, that to get an effective date prior to the end of the year would be pushing it....hope that is going to be the case.

[Capt. Lee]

The section of the proposed rules on the future of the 500 ton license was very difficult for me to figure out. My understanding was that right now there is no ITC equivliancy for the 500 Ton license. Now the USCG says that they are going to do away with the 500 ton license, but they are also finally giving it an ITC equiv. (1200)??? Sounds like the 200/500 is here to stay, so...the path would be something like 100 to 200/500 to 1600/3000? Is anybody clear on this? DANZANTE??

When I got my 500 ton Master license I had to do 90 days on a vessel over 1600 tons ITC and they put a 3000 ton ITC endorsement on my license just like the 1600 ton Masters. 2 years later I upgraded to 1600 ton master with sea time only. I know some old school guys that submitted their 500 ton master for upgrade and (that they originally got in the 80's) they were upgraded tp 1600 without testing.

[Diesel]

When I got my 500 ton Master license I had to do 90 days on a vessel over 1600 tons ITC and they put a 3000 ton ITC endorsement on my license just like the 1600 ton Masters. 2 years later I upgraded to 1600 ton master with sea time only. I know some old school guys that submitted their 500 ton master for upgrade and (that they originally got in the 80's) they were upgraded tp 1600 without testing.

The way they're doing it now Capt. Lee, is giving the 500 ton Master guys a 3000 ton ITC restricted to OSV's right off the bat, and then taking the OSV restriction off when they upgrade to 1600 ton Master. At least that's what I have seen them do for two guys.