Crew change hell

**Stareed** · May 22nd, 2009, 09:52 AM

Hey Guys I have something I would like to get your opinion on. Crew Change and how a really long bad one affects our ability to perform a job in a safe and professional manner. I will give you an example of a recent one of ours, and see what you think could be done better in the future. In today’s world of “ There are no accidents, just failure to have enough safety meetings” I think this is something that should be looked at more closely.

Depart your home at 1600 travel to office. arrive at 2200,
Pick up carryall, supplies, and crew, Depart office at 2230 drive all night.
Arrive Galv. Tx at 0600 next day
Depart Galv.0630 On crew boat arrive offshore at 1430
Go on watch till midnight.
22.5 hours in transit

I know that there are people that will say things like, “ that’s how it always been” and “sleep on the crew boat”, "leave earlier and get a nap before", Etc. ( who wants to spend anymore time at work than they already do) But come on; like I said earlier, in my company they have a goal zero safety plan and they mean it! They preach stop work authority all the time, JSA’s Pre job safety meeting checks , permits to work and so on. How can these two things continue to exist in the same world? Many others on this site I and have dealt with this for years and it has not gotten any better. Sure what I have as an example may not happen all the time, but it happens enough to be discussed.
By the way we didn’t get paid for leaving the office at 2200, we received a full days pay for the next day though. That’s right I drove the carryall the supplies and the crew for Free until midnight

**Capt_Anonymous** · May 22nd, 2009, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Stareed

22.5 hours in transit

Unfortunately, the CFRs and the USC only talk about rest, not sleep. Your eight hours off duty on the crewboat would meet the language currently found in both. Life sucks sometimes. At least when I worked for Hornbeck/Tidewater out of Galveston we had Carryall Paul to do the driving for us. I feel your pain, brah.

**captrob** · May 22nd, 2009, 11:18 AM

OMG, I haven't thought about him in years. He used to come to the boats and root around the garbage looking for beer bottles.

**Capt. Nemo** · May 22nd, 2009, 11:19 AM

Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's right. I'm not a big union advocate but this is one of many reasons unions have prospered and proliferated.

A company president once told me "bad management is a union's best friend". He was a smart man.

Nemo

**Capt_Anonymous** · May 22nd, 2009, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by captrob

OMG, I haven't thought about him in years. He used to come to the boats and root around the garbage looking for beer bottles.

Now THAT brings back memories!!

**Casper** · May 22nd, 2009, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by Stareed

Hey Guys I have something I would like to get your opinion on. Crew Change and how a really long bad one affects our ability to perform a job in a safe and professional manner. I will give you an example of a recent one of ours, and see what you think could be done better in the future. In today’s world of “ There are no accidents, just failure to have enough safety meetings” I think this is something that should be looked at more closely.

Depart your home at 1600 travel to office. arrive at 2200,
Pick up carryall, supplies, and crew, Depart office at 2230 drive all night.
Arrive Galv. Tx at 0600 next day
Depart Galv.0630 On crew boat arrive offshore at 1430
Go on watch till midnight.
22.5 hours in transit

I know that there are people that will say things like, “ that’s how it always been” and “sleep on the crew boat”, "leave earlier and get a nap before", Etc. ( who wants to spend anymore time at work than they already do) But come on; like I said earlier, in my company they have a goal zero safety plan and they mean it! They preach stop work authority all the time, JSA’s Pre job safety meeting checks , permits to work and so on. How can these two things continue to exist in the same world? Many others on this site I and have dealt with this for years and it has not gotten any better. Sure what I have as an example may not happen all the time, but it happens enough to be discussed.
By the way we didn’t get paid for leaving the office at 2200, we received a full days pay for the next day though. That’s right I drove the carryall the supplies and the crew for Free until midnight

It really does suck sometimes... worst one I've had was like this: Working outta Fourchon, c/c set for midnight. It's like 16:00, I'm on watch getting everything ready to go home, the friggin oil co. calls the boat up and tells us to head to Port O'Connor. 12hrs later, I'm getting in the truck by myself to drive home to Mobile, another 11hrs with half day pay on way home.

Stareed by reading your story I could tell that we work for the same company. Blue hull/orange trim ????? LOL Did I guess right ??

PEACE

**seadawg** · May 23rd, 2009, 12:14 AM

sorry guys your on your own with this one..the USCG and "management" are OTL on this issue..they are like deer in the headlights on this one.."management" always pulls the "safety card" whenever convienant and I believe the USCG's dog ate all the CEM data that they and "management" had us fill out some years back..consider this the "nature of the beast" and deal with it "creatively"..for most of you statistically the crewchange transit to and from the vessel is the most dangerous part of your hitch.

**REMEMBER THIS AND BE SAFE OUT THERE!!

**tengineer** · May 23rd, 2009, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Stareed

Hey Guys I have something I would like to get your opinion on. Crew Change and how a really long bad one affects our ability to perform a job in a safe and professional manner. I will give you an example of a recent one of ours, and see what you think could be done better in the future. In today’s world of “ There are no accidents, just failure to have enough safety meetings” I think this is something that should be looked at more closely.

Depart your home at 1600 travel to office. arrive at 2200,
Pick up carryall, supplies, and crew, Depart office at 2230 drive all night.
Arrive Galv. Tx at 0600 next day
Depart Galv.0630 On crew boat arrive offshore at 1430
Go on watch till midnight.
22.5 hours in transit

I know that there are people that will say things like, “ that’s how it always been” and “sleep on the crew boat”, "leave earlier and get a nap before", Etc. ( who wants to spend anymore time at work than they already do) But come on; like I said earlier, in my company they have a goal zero safety plan and they mean it! They preach stop work authority all the time, JSA’s Pre job safety meeting checks , permits to work and so on. How can these two things continue to exist in the same world? Many others on this site I and have dealt with this for years and it has not gotten any better. Sure what I have as an example may not happen all the time, but it happens enough to be discussed.
By the way we didn’t get paid for leaving the office at 2200, we received a full days pay for the next day though. That’s right I drove the carryall the supplies and the crew for Free until midnight

How about this. Work midnight to noon, drive carry-all back to Fourchon and arrive at 1700. Get paid for 1/2 day. It happens.
A judge ruled in one case that driving was "work time" and figured into the adequate rest clause. The boat companies were fighting this and I don't know what became of it.
The "sleep on the crew boat, take a nap, and that's the way it's always been" are typical of the GOM. They also like to say "if you don't like it you can leave.''
The companies have a union called the OMSA which lobbies for them with the USCG and congress. Until the employees have a collective voice the same as the companies' collective voice this will never change and I don't see it ever changing in the GOM. If you don't like it, upgrade your license or MMD and leave.

**Stareed** · May 23rd, 2009, 07:06 PM

TENG,
Tell me where I can take my 1600t Master Oceans, Master of Towing, 3rd Mate Unlimited, DPO Unlimited, and have a new boat and the oppertunity to continue moving up; plus make the same money and I might consider it.
I fully accept the reality of the situation, I was trying to have a dialog about the Safety First mentality in regard to crew change. As to the U word, you spoke of; I don't need anyone else trying to tell me what to do, and what is best for me. One family is enough right now. I like the company that I work for. I was just talking out loud.

**tengineer** · May 23rd, 2009, 07:20 PM

As to the U word, you spoke of; I don't need anyone else trying to tell me what to do, and what is best for me. One family is enough right now. I like the company that I work for. I was just talking out loud.[/quote]

I never used the U word for mariners. You could call it a lobbying organization for the GOM workers if you like but at present nothing of the sort exists.
You ask where you can get the same money as 3rd mate as you get for master limited? You can't expect to work 28/28 and make as much as you can 28/14. Figure 28/28, figure benefit costs you pay, pay while in school,pension, 401k match etc. to make a fair comparison. You don't have to work union to be treated decently and have safety taken as more than just a slogan but you may have to get off the boats and move to the rigs or ships.

**Stareed** · May 23rd, 2009, 07:29 PM

I think I'll stay right here, Our company's ranks are swelling with "Deep Sea" sailors everyday. The water doesn't seem to be any "bluer" on that side. Or they would not be here. Hell we have a Mass. Maritime Grad, and a Pointer on our bridge crew right now. Thanks for the input though.

**injunear** · May 23rd, 2009, 09:57 PM

I'll let ya'll argue the "hue of the blue". I mailed off my pension app Friday. 39 years is long enough. I spent the first 15 years in and out of the oilfield with my share of carry-all rides. The rest with the "U". I should have done this last year when I turned 55. I remember when going to sea was fun.

**tengineer** · May 23rd, 2009, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by injunear

I'll let ya'll argue the "hue of the blue". I mailed off my pension app Friday. 39 years is long enough. I spent the first 15 years in and out of the oilfield with my share of carry-all rides. The rest with the "U". I should have done this last year when I turned 55. I remember when going to sea was fun.

Injuneer,

I've worked both also but and it's not a blue, green or brown thing in my opinion. It varies from company to company no matter the license or the depth of the water you sail in.
You've worked union and non. What would you say the differences are in your personal experience?

**injunear** · May 23rd, 2009, 10:52 PM

I left the oilfield in 85 during that down cycle. I went to work on a union tug for twice the day-rate plus overtime. After all the horror stories I had heard about the unions, I was surprised not to witness any child sacrafices.

There are pros and cons for both. I worked for 6 companies my first 15 years and 2 companies under SIU contract for 24 years.

The non-union companies have stepped up training near to or even better than what the SIU offers. There still are too few entry level positions for the engine room on both sides.
The SIU insurance is not as good as it was before but still better than most. Contributions are paid by company.

My favorite is early pension at 55. Not many of those left.

**drkblram** · May 24th, 2009, 11:37 AM

FYI, at least when I was sailing union, the union was nothing more than a hiring hall and benefits provider. They would sell you out to protect their relationship with the company.

I feel your pain though. Spend 8, 12 or even 20 hours in transit (I don't sleep well in planes and airports) then get to the ship, get 20 minutes to stow your s#it, change, spend 30 minutes with the guy or gal your relieving, then get to work. I think transit issues maybe universal in the industry.

**Jeffrox** · May 25th, 2009, 12:18 AM

"That’s right I drove the carryall the supplies and the crew for Free until midnight."

Wow, you're a real team player!!

This happens in the blue water shipping industry also: fly non-stop from Newark to S'pore, sit on the pier 4 hours wanting for the ship to tie-up, move straight into loading stores etc, meet the crew/sign on/have lunch, wave good-bye to the off-going crew, fill-in on the watchbill or day work schedule, have dinner, pass-out, come back on watch for 4 hrs during the night.
Oh, don't forget the 12 hours of time zones when figuring the jet lag. One company would fly us in the day earlier and put us in a hotel so we could sleep the jet lag off before reporting, another company didn't-the cheap bastardos. Actually they lied and said we were going in a day early to a hotel; no need for lying - FLY ME IN A DAY EARLY AND I'D HAVE PAYED FOR THE HOTEL MYSELF
Even on an MMP contract, I flew form Seattle to Nagasaki via a Tokyo layover, arrived at the ship at 2300 and was informed by the mate I was his relief for the 00-08 inport watch! That sucked.

**Stareed** · May 25th, 2009, 08:38 AM

I am happy to here we're all screwed with the same regularity, no matter what segment of the Industry. Maybe we all should have been lawyer's, or even Doctors instead! I love my job and will keep doing it every crew change, just like everybody else! See you in the carry-all

**injunear** · May 25th, 2009, 11:42 AM

and then it comes down to the meaning of the word "is".....

Under our contract, if the company dosen't fly us home crew change day, they have to put us up in a hotel and one more day's pay.

West coast crew changes usually take place around 1400. To dot the "I's", the typical flight home would leave LA or San Fran @ 2345 to NY or Atlanta and then to Houston or New Orleans the next day at 0730.

Not much different than a carry-all. Reason #3 to take the early out.

JP · May 27th, 2009, 09:06 PM

I love how the companies talk safety till its coming out your ears. UNTIL it is something they have to do like increase the crew onboard or get people to the boat early so they can have proper rest before going to work. No, safety is only a concern to them when it is something we have to do. No matter that one of the biggest causes of accidents is lack of sleep.

**pushboat** · June 11th, 2009, 02:00 AM

hey not to change the subject but ... what is the difference between a crew van and a 4 wheeldrive monster truck?

There are some places you would not take a monster truck!!