Current 3/M looking to upgrade to 500T Master, Please Help!

[TugLife]

Hi,

I graduated from Cal Maritime last year. I have been working on ship assist tugs (all of which are 100 T or less) in inland waters. I am getting close to my upgrade and have a few questions...

1. Can I upgrade from a 3/M AGT oceans to a 500 T Master (Oceans) even though all of my sea time has been in inland waters?

2. How much sea time is required for the upgrade from 3/M to 500T Master? I have heard (if working in inland waters) that 1 year seatime will get you an inland license and 18 months will get you an oceans. Any truth to this?


before anyone directly links me to 46CFR 10.418.....
I have read 46 CFR10.418 over and over, and nothing in there seems to address this particular situation.

Thanks!

[dougpine]

Hi,

I graduated from Cal Maritime last year. I have been working on ship assist tugs (all of which are 100 T or less) in inland waters. I am getting close to my upgrade and have a few questions...

1. Can I upgrade from a 3/M AGT oceans to a 500 T Master (Oceans) even though all of my sea time has been in inland waters?

2. How much sea time is required for the upgrade from 3/M to 500T Master? I have heard (if working in inland waters) that 1 year seatime will get you an inland license and 18 months will get you an oceans. Any truth to this?


before anyone directly links me to 46CFR 10.418.....
I have read 46 CFR10.418 over and over, and nothing in there seems to address this particular situation.

Thanks!

100 ton Master is built in to your 3/M, so pursue the sea time as if you were upgrading from 100 Master to 500 Master.

If you stay where you are though you'll be stuck with an inland license, and you won't be able to move up the unlimited ladder either.

[TugLife]

Thank you for the reply.

So you are saying that I would be stuck with an inland license? Like I stated before, I have heard that it is possible to upgrade to a 500 T oceans, because I already hold an oceans license. ti would just take additional sea time.

[dougpine]

I'll defer to the more knowledgeable folk who lurk around here, but I think unless you're sailing N/C or Oceans you're going to have issues.

[TugLife]

Turkey day bump

[TugLife]

Bump! Anyone?

[TugLife]

I appreciate the input doug! Any body else can help with this?

[mike173]

100 ton Master is built in to your 3/M, so pursue the sea time as if you were upgrading from 100 Master to 500 Master.

If you stay where you are though you'll be stuck with an inland license, and you won't be able to move up the unlimited ladder either.

I'm gonna have to agree with Doug on this one. The CFR's certainly don't seem to address situations such as this. From my personal experience, back in the 90's I had a 200 ton license, and went to work on the Great Lakes. My time qualified me for 500 ton NC, but they would only give a 1600 ton Great Lakes. I had to move back offshore to upgrade that.

And that begs the question: what makes you think you should qualify for a 500 ton ocean Master, when all your real work experience has been inland? This is not an indictment of you, or inland guys in general. Just a statement of fact. You haven't worked offshore on your license.

But, that said, i believe you should always apply for everything you think you can get. Perhaps consider talking directly to one of the license consultants. I have used Chuck Kakuska out of Michigan in past years. I have heard at least one other name tossed around on gCaptain. You might get the answer you want, or at least the right answer.

[seadog6608]

I'm gonna have to agree with Doug on this one. The CFR's certainly don't seem to address situations such as this. From my personal experience, back in the 90's I had a 200 ton license, and went to work on the Great Lakes. My time qualified me for 500 ton NC, but they would only give a 1600 ton Great Lakes. I had to move back offshore to upgrade that.

And that begs the question: what makes you think you should qualify for a 500 ton ocean Master, when all your real work experience has been inland? This is not an indictment of you, or inland guys in general. Just a statement of fact. You haven't worked offshore on your license.

But, that said, i believe you should always apply for everything you think you can get. Perhaps consider talking directly to one of the license consultants. I have used Chuck Kakuska out of Michigan in past years. I have heard at least one other name tossed around on gCaptain. You might get the answer you want, or at least the right answer.

I've also used Chuck Kakuska's service. SeaK's Licensing is the name of his business. He can be contacted at 734 847 1723. He is retired from the USCG and worked in REC's most of his career. He also actually wrote some of the CFR requirements himself. Needless to say, he is one knowledgable dude. Good luck.

[TugLife]

I'm gonna have to agree with Doug on this one. The CFR's certainly don't seem to address situations such as this. From my personal experience, back in the 90's I had a 200 ton license, and went to work on the Great Lakes. My time qualified me for 500 ton NC, but they would only give a 1600 ton Great Lakes. I had to move back offshore to upgrade that.

And that begs the question: what makes you think you should qualify for a 500 ton ocean Master, when all your real work experience has been inland? This is not an indictment of you, or inland guys in general. Just a statement of fact. You haven't worked offshore on your license.

But, that said, i believe you should always apply for everything you think you can get. Perhaps consider talking directly to one of the license consultants. I have used Chuck Kakuska out of Michigan in past years. I have heard at least one other name tossed around on gCaptain. You might get the answer you want, or at least the right answer.

Thanks for the response Mike.

While it is true, I havnt sailed oceans on my license, I already have an Oceans endorsment and I am just trying to keep it on there when I upgrade.


btw, the CFRS do say that 18 months of seatime can be substituted with Inland time and still keep on Oceans endoresment, which is where my question stems from.

again thank you for your input.

Anybody else have any thoughts on this?

[Capt. Fran]

Hi,

I graduated from Cal Maritime last year. I have been working on ship assist tugs (all of which are 100 T or less) in inland waters. I am getting close to my upgrade and have a few questions...

1. Can I upgrade from a 3/M AGT oceans to a 500 T Master (Oceans) even though all of my sea time has been in inland waters?

2. How much sea time is required for the upgrade from 3/M to 500T Master? I have heard (if working in inland waters) that 1 year seatime will get you an inland license and 18 months will get you an oceans. Any truth to this?


before anyone directly links me to 46CFR 10.418.....
I have read 46 CFR10.418 over and over, and nothing in there seems to address this particular situation.

Thanks!

Hey there Mr. Tug,
OK, let's address this logically. You have a 3rd Mate Oceans, but forget about that for a moment and let's just address the 500 ton Master license. Now, I know you said there isn't anything in the cfr that specifically addresses your situation, but I beg to differ.

Your first question: "Can I upgrade from a 3/M AGT oceans to a 500 T Master (Oceans) even though all of my sea time has been in inland waters?"
Maybe. You lie about all of your sea time being in inland waters. Clearly you have some oceans time or you would not have a 3rd Mate. What you mean is that all of your mate time is inland.

Answer these questions. If you can answer yes to ALL of them, you can have a 500 Oceans master.
1) a)Do you have 3 years total service on ocean or near coastal waters? b) If not, do you have 1.5 years ocean or near coastal plus 1.5 years Great Lakes or Inland? If yes to either, you may proceed to #2.
2) Do you have 2 years (from the 3 years required above)as a master, mate, or equivalent supervisory position while holding your 3rd Mate?
3) Of that 2 years from above as master or mate, is at least 1 year on vessels over 50 gross tons?

Did you answer yes to all? Congratulations. If not, sorry.

Your second question: "How much sea time is required for the upgrade from 3/M to 500T Master?"
You cannot upgrade FROM 3rd Mate to 500 ton, per se. See my answer to your first question.

Your third question: "I have heard (if working in inland waters) that 1 year seatime will get you an inland license and 18 months will get you an oceans. Any truth to this?"
I say again, see my answer to your first question.