Terrestrial Navigation

[Sea2Sea]

Does anyone know of a good home study Terrestrial Nav course?

[Capt. Fran]

These guys have a good reputation, but I can't personally vouch for them:

http://www.starpath.com/coastal/coastal_title.htm

[Capt.Winn]

I used Bowditch for everything. Its boring to read but we're not in it for entertainment right?

[Capt. Fran]

That's right Capt. Winn, and as my old signature used to say, "Nate knows"!

But I should have added, "And Dutton speaks English".

[Needs a Shave]

Use the Murphy's Books in conjunction with Bowditch. Another important thing to get a hold of is Bowditch II because that is the book that you are allowed to take into every license exam. If you know B II from cover to cover, you will know where to look when you actually do need to use it.

[Needs a Shave]

My room mate in college was also a big fan of a program called Captain Joe's

[Cal]

Out of curiosity, why are you looking to take a home study course for Terrestrial Navigation?

For those seeking a first license subsequent to the implementation of STCW 95 in 2001 they (the USCG) want our butts in a chair in a classroom. The days of studying independently for, and taking the test for, a Near Coastal or Oceans license are over.

It gets very frustrating when I try to explain that to Captains and Mates I work with. "Well why don't you just study and go test like I did?" Because the requirements are different now....

[Capt. Lee]

Captain Joe's and Lapware.org If money is an issue use the Capt. Joe's only. You can order it for 59.99 http://uscgexam.com/

You will need a Bowditch, Nautical Almanac for testing, Tides and currents for testing, Maneuvering boards, and a calculator. You can learn how to do it on your own. Terrestrial subjects vary depending on which license you are going for. Most of the subjects are the following:
-Tide problem (normally the earliest time to pass over an obstruction)
-Current problem (One of about 6-7 different types of questions)
-Azimuth of the Sun
-Amplitude (Either Celestial or Visible)
-Deviation table
-Time tick
-Bearing problems (Some you can work out with math some have to be on Maneuvering Boards)
-Sunrise or sunset
-Pitch
-Consumption

If this is the first time you have ever looked at these problems it may be overwhelming in the beginning, it was for me. What I did was take one type of problem at a time and work it until I was doing pretty good. Or until I couldn't take it any more and then go to another type of problem. On Lapware, you can download a terrestrial test and work it out at you leisure. Also you can get the solution to the problem on Lapware and Joe's to show you how to get the answer. Before you know it you will be picking up on the mistakes that Joe's and Lapware have made in some of their solutions.

[mike173]

I just used Captain Joe's and Lapware for my C/M upgrade. Lapware is more expensive, but has more ability to create sample tests. Also, Joe's is not updated frequently enough. For example, there are Rules of the Road questions that are not on Joe's. Rules stay the same, but the wording changes. So I used Lapware for Rules, and Joe's, because of its simpler format, for most the the rest.

[cajuntugster]

didn't he ask about terrestrial, not celestial? your basic set/drift,,, geo/nominal range stuff????

[CaptAndrew]

didn't he ask about terrestrial, not celestial? your basic set/drift,,, geo/nominal range stuff????

Everything in Capt Lee's post is considered terrestrial, plus a couple of other things like distance off, fuel consumption and such.

[mike173]

-Tide problem (normally the earliest time to pass over an obstruction)
-Current problem (One of about 6-7 different types of questions)
-Azimuth of the Sun
-Amplitude (Either Celestial or Visible)
-Deviation table
-Time tick
-Bearing problems (Some you can work out with math some have to be on Maneuvering Boards)
-Sunrise or sunset
-Pitch
-Consumption

Yep, all of those were on the terrestrial exam, plus Mercator sailings , mid-latitude sailings and parallel sailings. Great circle was on my celestial portion.

[Capt. Lee]

didn't he ask about terrestrial, not celestial? your basic set/drift,,, geo/nominal range stuff????

Basic set and drift is on the plotting test. Geographic and nominal ranges is on Nav General.

Distance abeam and distance off 2nd bearing using the tables in bowditch is the best way to work the problem. I see people working this with the maneuvering board and it drives me crazy.

[Capt. Lee]

Yep, all of those were on the terrestrial exam, plus Mercator sailings , mid-latitude sailings and parallel sailings. Great circle was on my celestial portion.

I had a "PITCH" problem on my chief mate/master celestial test. I was like thank you for the freebie!

[Azimuth]

Out of curiosity, why are you looking to take a home study course for Terrestrial Navigation?

For those seeking a first license subsequent to the implementation of STCW 95 in 2001 they (the USCG) want our butts in a chair in a classroom. The days of studying independently for, and taking the test for, a Near Coastal or Oceans license are over.

It gets very frustrating when I try to explain that to Captains and Mates I work with. "Well why don't you just study and go test like I did?" Because the requirements are different now....

I would have to agree with the frustrated Captains & Mates. There are alot of folks out there who have tested after 2002 that didn't sit in the classroom to learn this stuff. They were all MOTIVATED and DISCIPLINED! It is a difficult subject to wrap your head around at first but it ain't rocket science either. Like Capt Lee said, tackle it a small piece at a time and you should do fine.

[Cal]

I would have to agree with the frustrated Captains & Mates. There are alot of folks out there who have tested after 2002 that didn't sit in the classroom to learn this stuff. They were all MOTIVATED and DISCIPLINED! It is a difficult subject to wrap your head around at first but it ain't rocket science either. Like Capt Lee said, tackle it a small piece at a time and you should do fine.

Sounds like you might be one of the "frustrated Captains & Mates". With my response I'll try and exercise more tact than you were able to muster. My exam for 1,600 GRT Mate Near Coastal is scheduled in January. Without the required training courses as specified in Policy Letter 01-02 I would be unable to qualify for the license, period.

http://uscg.mil/nmc/marpers/pag/1-02.pdf

So maybe you are referring to a lower level license, I don't know. If it were 200 GRT or less, not a problem, no additional coursework. Not an Oceans or Near Coastal license? Also not a problem. Beginning with a 500 GRT Near Coastal License, the additional courses are REQUIRED. They are not a choice and they are not optional. Like I said before, they want our butts in a chair in a classroom, they don't care if we can pass the exam without taking the course.

On a side note, it's my level of motivation and discipline that enticed my employer to pay for the coursework and all expenses (travel, meals, lodging) associated with my participation, including wages during class.

[anchorman]

Out of curiosity, why are you looking to take a home study course for Terrestrial Navigation?

For those seeking a first license subsequent to the implementation of STCW 95 in 2001 they (the USCG) want our butts in a chair in a classroom. The days of studying independently for, and taking the test for, a Near Coastal or Oceans license are over.

It gets very frustrating when I try to explain that to Captains and Mates I work with. "Well why don't you just study and go test like I did?" Because the requirements are different now....

I studied @ home all the way to unlimited master (and still do)...even with the STCW courses, that are not designed as "test prep", you will always have to study on your own and it seems like the poster got the help he needed.

[Capt. Lee]

No matter what license or class you take, I would recommend some type of preparation prior to taking the course "IF" there are study materials available. I have tried to come prepared to almost every course I have taken. I too have home studied for everything. The STCW courses do not prepare you to test at the Coast Guard. They are simply fulfilling an International training requirement. Some of the course are helpful to testing, i.e. Adv. Stability, and some of the Adv. Cargo. I have to say that some of them were a complete waste of time. I think the toughest class I took was Adv. Meteorolgy, because I had very little exposure to 500mb charts and the instructor was a 500mb chart genius (Lee Chesneau). There is nothing you can learn in one of these classes that you can't teach yourself, but sometimes you need that person asking you questions like why are you doing that or do you think it would be easier if you did this or try it this way and tell me what you think. It may take longer to learn it yourself, but believe me it is cheaper.


Cal-
I hate to be the one to break this to you, but 1600 ton Mate is a lower level license. Taking a test and passing it has nothing to do with the requirements to qualify to test. Having the license has nothing to do with if someone can do the job. Good luck on your tests in January.

[Cal]

Taking a test and passing it has nothing to do with the requirements to qualify to test.

Excellent point. I guess I assumed that the purpose of taking such a test would be in order to receive some sort of advancement out of doing so. Without the seperate STCW requirements being met you could, in fact, take the tests and pass them, but you would not necessarily be issued the license. So what then would be the point?

None of this precludes the fact that one needs to study if they are planning on taking the Coast Guard Exams. I never said, nor implied, that one should not study. I never said that one could not learn on their own the pertinent subjects. However, I did want to elaborate, if the end goal is a license above a certain level or on certain routes, make sure the money spent satisfies everything you need it to satisfy.

The original poster asked about a specific subject, not the exams as a whole. The specific subject, Terrestrial Navigation, happens to be an STCW requirement for certain licenses. As such, in addition to the ability to pass an exam, they want a certificate of completion for the course. In other words, they want your butt in a chair.

My comment about the Captain's and Mate's is due to the fact that many of them are/were grandfathered in or the requirements simply did not exist when they obtained their licenses. The disservice they propagate and insult they inflict with their ignorance is offensive. It's not that I'm too stupid to figure out how to calculate an Azimuth on my own. It's my knowledge that without the certificate of completion for a Terrestrial Navigation course satisfying the STCW requirement, the Coast Guard won't issue me a 1,600 GRT Near Coastal even though I can pass their exam.

[Shellback]

The disservice they propagate and insult they inflict with their ignorance is offensive.

Amen, well said..Not meaning to be negative here, it's just that, I have been experiencing the same thing..That's why I appreciate all of you, here on gcaptain that much more...

In my own experience,I have found that the folks that were grandfathered in and who don't wish to increase their licenses, rarely keep up with what has changed...