Animal Planet Whale Wars

[Steamer]

I don't believe you need a certificate to violate to be judged unseaworthy. But if I'm wrong you'll let me know, I'm sure.

If you want to claim the vessel is unseaworthy because it is not manned properly and there are no manning standards or requirements you will be hard pressed to make that case.

If you are just pissed off because you don't like what they are doing, just say so, don't try to make some holier than thou case based on manning regulations and certificates.

A court or maritime authority can find a vessel unseaworthy for a myriad of reasons. Be careful of what you ask for since you might not like those standards applied to you or your own vessel. I suspect that if held to the standards the anti anti whalers are demanding, a few folks here might find themselves on the beach.

[richard8000milesaway]

politics aside, both vessels are at fault. The International Rules of the Road (COLREGS) state that vessels should at all cost avoid a risk of collision and take action accordingly, even if it means departing from those same rules.

[trekleader]

rumored that Paul filled the hull of the Steve Irwin with concrete, similar to what he did with another one of his ships. Paul is seeing red and looking for blood

Care to share the source for your rumored cement hull and the looking for blood comment?

[MikeE1849]

Care to share the source for your rumored cement hull and the looking for blood comment?

I said it was a RUMOR! and Watson has done it before, yet at that time he openly bragged about it about smashing ships hulls in. I don't get why you like teh SSCS so much but you are the odd man out in the maritime world. Maybe some one his cew need to blow a hole in the bottom of the ship that employs you just like he has done in the past

[trekleader]

It's not that I like SSCS, and this is not about me.

You, MikeE1849, have been childish in your posts. You advocate pranks, solicit advice for actions to take and now, spread rumors. You have a clear axe to grind. I don't believe you care about sailors, or maritime issues,

You just seem to remind me of some Internet Tough Guy, trying to start a Chanology-type mission against Sea Shepherd, like Anonymous against Scientology.

I'm not a moderator here, and you certainly don't need my permission to do anything here. But if you post b.s. in here, I'm gonna call you on it.

[mslilith2000]

I also want to know what the hell was going through the head of the dude in the Ady Gil if he were in fact trying to cause a collision with the Japanese ship. Nothing would ever make steel flinch except another piece of steel. That's just insanity and endangerment of life and property.

I'm new and found this forum while looking for a professional-mariner based discussion of the show Whale Wars; particularly after yesterday's news about the Ady Gil. I found you when I googled "Sea Sheperd stupid". Bingo!

After doing some digging, I found that the helmsman on the Ady Gil during this incident was Captain Pete Bethune who is very familiar with the boat having been the skipper during the record setting world race event for which the boat was originally built. There is some good information available if you google Bethune's name along with Earthrace. (Me? I don't know squat about speedboats. Or racing.)

Anyway, this took me by surprise as I too had wondered what the hell was going through the head of the dude on the Ady Gil. I also found an interview with Pete Bethune on Youtube which, if I've done this right, you can watch here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgadHN1X6nU. He claims the Ady Gil was out of gas which, if true, changes the assumed dynamics of the crash. I don't know enough about Captain Bethune to know if his moral character in any way matches Paul Watson's inclination for, um, stretching the truth.

This is an excellent forum with many rational and well thought out opinions regarding Whale Wars - exactly what I was looking for. Until I found you, I thought I was the only one twisted enough to find humor (along with some horror) in the antics of Paul Watson. I think I'll stick around a while...

K.

[Capt_Anonymous]

He claims the Ady Gil was out of gas which, if true, changes the assumed dynamics of the crash.

Did you see the videos? Boats that are out of fuel do not create prop wash and wakes.

[trekleader]

...He claims the Ady Gil was out of gas...

And, as far as calling b.s., this fits the bill...

Oh, and, Welcome, mslillith, to the board...

[dougpine]

After watching the second video, the one taken bow-on from in front of the whaler, one might argue that the whaler was coming right in accordance with the rules. He does have what appears to be a pretty good rate of turn to starboard going, until just before the collision and the just after comes left.

The two videos offer the same thing eyewitnesses offer all the time in court: conflicting recollections of the events. I think the video from the ship offers more indication of the relative motion of the two vessels.

[mslilith2000]

Did you see the videos? Boats that are out of fuel do not create prop wash and wakes.

Yes, I've seen the videos and so I'm not sure what to think of Bethune's interview. Although I feel the "out of gas" claim doesn't match up with the visual evidence, a lot of the people on here appear far more knowledgable than I am and being the newbie, I don't wish to start off stating all of my beliefs at once. I'd prefer you get to know me before you decide whether you love me or hate me, or whether any of my opinions have merit.

From the first look at the first still pictures I saw (before I found the videos) it did look like the Ady Gil was moving forward. Rapidly. Although I can be very opinionated, I'm the kind who prefers to hang back a little and look for other evidence, additional facts, and analysis of events by qualified people, before publicly printing any conclusions of my own.

Don't get me wrong - I'll spew off all kinds of crap without much thought when talking with my kids or with the clerk at the convenience store. My kids are still young enough to be quite gullible and the guy at the convenience store doesn't speak english. Most of all, I try to avoid looking like a great big boob. I've been a great big boob before - it's not fun.

This is why I went looking for a forum like this. That very first photo of the collision really. My own healthy sense of self confidence aside, I am a stickler for facts. I learned the hard way to stop and think before repeating something I read/heard/saw somewhere as an absolute truth. Which makes me believe that I am definitely worlds away from Paul Watson and his approach to the media. And I'm quite sure I'd look way cooler in the blue blazer with all the shiny ribbons than he does.

Among many of the things I have enjoyed while reading this particular thread has been the analysis of the videos and the sometimes differing opinions of what is seen from what angle. This same debate is readily available on many other forums but none offer the wealth of experience that this one does. I've equally enjoyed the discussion of COLREGS and the different ways the rules might be interpreted. It is quite refreshing that members here are not afraid to preface their own opinions with things like "I don't know for sure but.." or "I think but I'm not positive...".

With Respect,

K.

[Ceto]

Hi, just like mslilith I was looking for the opinions of some pros.

Just registered to point this out regarding the claim that they were out of fuel:

Last night the two pieces of the trimaran, formerly the globe-circling Earthrace, were still afloat and the activists were salvaging what they could, including 400 litres of fuel. #

[trekleader]

Hi Ceto

Welcome aboard...

Interesting post. Anyone know the Ady Gil's capacity?

I've never been able to get a barge completely empty of fuel. I mean, the presence of fuel aboard in and of itself may not mean that the vessel still wasn't 'out of fuel'.

400 liters is about 88 gallons (a 'Puncheon' in French, according to the site I just looked at), a little over 2 barrels. Meh...

Still, he had prop wash. Diesaling?

[richard8000milesaway]

hey, nice one trekleader, haven't heard of de-sailing since my sailing ship days on the Sea Cloud early 1990's; to wit:
Wealthy German Tourist: "Ach, Mr Officer, you are from Amerika, jah?"
me: "yes sir, New England."
Wealthy German Tourist: "Ach, Ve are sailingk now, yes? vich sails do we have set?"
Me: "yes, sir we are sailing. we have set the Mains'l, lower topsl's, upper tops'ls, & t'gallents as well as the de-sail, which will help us work a bit to windward."
Wealthy German Tourist: "Ach! Very Goot! It is beautiful, jah?"
me: "yes, sir, it is quite a sight."

[Ceto]

According to Ady Gil's official site: Fuel Capacity: 12,000 liters (3,000 gallons) #

But I've read at some place that there was an Animal Planet crew onboard the Bob Barker, so there should be more videos of the collision. Not to mention the video from the Ady Gil.

[CMA_Decky]

Watson's probably just saying that the Ady Gil is out of fuel so he doesn't have to worry about cleaning up all the fuel he's spilling into the environment. I've always believed that at some point one of these sea shephard collisions was going to cause an oil spill that did more harm than the "good" they're doing.

[cmakin]

Out of gas? Oh, well, that couldn't be prop wash, then. Wait, wasn't it also stated that they were taking emergency maneuvers to avoid collision? Hmm. You don't think that these folks would be lying, do you?

[Steamer]

Maybe some one his cew need to blow a hole in the bottom of the ship that employs you just like he has done in the past

Care to tell us whose crew blew a hole in whose ship in the past?

(just discovered that two whalers - Ibsa I and Ibsa II - were bombed in 1980 by a pair of operatives suspected of working for Sea Shepard ala the French bombing of the Rainbow Warrior without the murder of a crewman)

[Fred Fry]

Just one more comment on who might be the give way vessel.

The general consensus from the video seems to be that if it was an overtaking situation then it was the Japanese who would need to give way. Howwever, we only see a couple seconds of video before the collision to make this judgment. the encounter began minutes before that. If, as noted above, the ADY GIL was running circles around the Japanese vessel as part of a prop-fouling operation, then it probably got in the position it was in where the tape starts by overtaking the Japanese vessel. that would make it the give way vessel at the point the tape starts to tell the story, perhaps depending on how quickly the ADY GIL went from overtaking to DIW.

Given that the ADY GIL was attacking the Japanese ship I again wonder how relevant a strict interpretation of the rules are in determining guilt in a situation like this. Sea Shepherd should have seen this as one of the expected outcomes of taking that vessel down there. They never did explain how that vessel was going to survive an encounter with the ice...

[Azimuth]

Just one more comment on who might be the give way vessel.

The general consensus from the video seems to be that if it was an overtaking situation then it was the Japanese who would need to give way. Howwever, we only see a couple seconds of video before the collision to make this judgment. the encounter began minutes before that. If, as noted above, the ADY GIL was running circles around the Japanese vessel as part of a prop-fouling operation, then it probably got in the position it was in where the tape starts by overtaking the Japanese vessel. that would make it the give way vessel at the point the tape starts to tell the story, perhaps depending on how quickly the ADY GIL went from overtaking to DIW.

Given that the ADY GIL was attacking the Japanese ship I again wonder how relevant a strict interpretation of the rules are in determining guilt in a situation like this. Sea Shepherd should have seen this as one of the expected outcomes of taking that vessel down there. They never did explain how that vessel was going to survive an encounter with the ice...

At the beginning of the video clip the Ady Gil appears to be DIW but you can see the remnants of a wake which tells me that she was probably the overtaking vessel and then stopped before she was clear of whaler.

[Capt_Anonymous]

Just one more comment on who might be the give way vessel.

The general consensus from the video seems to be that if it was an overtaking situation then it was the Japanese who would need to give way. Howwever, we only see a couple seconds of video before the collision to make this judgment. the encounter began minutes before that. If, as noted above, the ADY GIL was running circles around the Japanese vessel as part of a prop-fouling operation, then it probably got in the position it was in where the tape starts by overtaking the Japanese vessel. that would make it the give way vessel at the point the tape starts to tell the story, perhaps depending on how quickly the ADY GIL went from overtaking to DIW.

Given that the ADY GIL was attacking the Japanese ship I again wonder how relevant a strict interpretation of the rules are in determining guilt in a situation like this. Sea Shepherd should have seen this as one of the expected outcomes of taking that vessel down there. They never did explain how that vessel was going to survive an encounter with the ice...

Hmm, I like the attack bit Fred. I don't remember anything in the rules about avoiding collision with a a vessel that is trying to cause yours harm.

But, as Walter would say, "fuck it Dude, let's go bowling".