LI_Domer (May 13th, 2014)
SUNY Maritime graduation was last Friday.
According to the school announcement, about 220 students graduated. Maritime has a student body of about 1800. That means that just less than one-eighth actually graduated. Something is very wrong when that few graduate in a given year.
LI_Domer (May 13th, 2014)
Doesn't the student body total include undergraduates? Just saying.
"Captain, that ancient Earth custom called spanking...what is it?"
Elaan of Troyius
Can you find out the breakdown of how many students are full time undergraduates trying for B.S. Degrees? I think they may have some graduate school students, part timers who transfer credits elsewhere and associate degree dudes included in that 1,800 figure. Otherwise they would be packing about 1,350 cadets each summer onto Summer Sea Terms on the training ship...
Back in the 1980's it seemed like we had about two out of three students graduate. Not sure if things have changed.
If you attended Maritime in the 1980s, you probably went to a school with far fewer students than today. I believe the student count hit a low of about 800 to 900 in the early 2000s. The summer cruise is now done in two segments because they cannot accommodate all on one cruise.
According to NYS Education Dep't. figures 21.8 of entering freshmen graduate in 4 years. 36.2% graduate in 5 years, and 44% graduate after 6 years. That would be quite a bit lower than the rough two-thirds figure you quoted. Whether the students take 4, 5, or even 6 years to graduate, the total number of graduates should be quite a bit higher than the 220 noted in the school's announcement. As I noted in another post, Carpenter was VERY concerned with the low graduation numbers and tried to improve academic outcomes. She was also very concerned with the Coast Guard exam pass rate among students and tried to improve that also. Those poor numbers were a surprise to her when they were pointed out to her shortly after she started working at the school. Her predecessor, Craine, seemed to take ho interest at all in academics. He was more concerned with getting tuition paying bodies into the school.
I think there was another thread which spelled out the graduation for the license tract students which is what readers of this forum are most concerned with.
That being said the non-license make up a small percent of the student body, so Rich's quotes are pretty spot on. It is quite shameful that the 6 year graduation rate is so low. And when he said that 220 or so graduated in May, that included Grad Students. I could be off but I'd figure it was probably about 20 Grad Students and 20-50 undergrad, non-license students.Originally Posted by Rich Bogad
What really needs to be done IMO is some trimming of non important courses out of the Undergrad Curricula. I was BS Marine Transportation, it's about 160 credits designed for 4 years, meaning 18-21 credits per semester, every semester. For those of you who didn't go to college, most Bachelors degrees are around 120 credits. I can think of a number of classes that should be trimmed off. Physics (we already take Meteorology, so that should count towards a GEN ED Natural Science w/lab.), Operations Research(just straight up useless), trim off a humanities elective or two, Tech Writing(useful but not necessary), condense Macro and Micro Economics into one course, or require only one of the two. The only increase I'd suggest would be to make Deck License Seminar 2cr per section, so it's a total of 8cr instead of 4. They're lucky I'm not on the Curriculum Committee.
Starboard Ten (May 13th, 2014)
Those numbers actually don't sound too far off on a rough back of the envelope calculation. It is a "Maritime" academy. Expecting someone right out of high school to know what they want to do is always a bit of a stretch. Some people find out right away that the industry is nothing like what they thought it would be (Master and Commander, Captain Ron, etc), others can do the course work and have no problem on the training ship but when they go cadet/commercial shipping that again the industry isn't really like school. Some others just decide they want to study English or something and transfer. I expect that all of the maritime academies have a larger percentage of people transferring out than a larger school that has more degree options. This isn't necessarily a bad thing either, if you want to go to school for boats, go to a maritime academy. If you decide boats aren't your thing and you'd rather study underwater basket weaving, sticking around at a maritime academy to study it probably wouldn't be the wisest choice even if there is a program for it.
Another thing that probably skews numbers for the academies is you have to be in the regiment for at least three years to sit for the license. Anyone transferring in to change areas of expertise (maritime related from underwater basket weaving) even with a lot of credits won't be graduating right away.
I remember when I was at Maine, if you look at the posted watch bills it looks like about 50% attrition every year. It won't be an exact estimate of enrollment ( upperclassmen doing other duties other than watch, staying in the school but dropping the reg, etc) but it should be close.
Personally I think its good to have schools that focus and not try to be everything to everyone. If I were administration the number I would be truly concerned about is the pass rate for coasties.
Anyways, I don't have a dog in the fight or really care, just a few thoughts.
only reason non-regiment students are in suny maritime is because of extra money.
I agree that there are too many credits to be packed into a four year program. Unless the goal is to cull the heard by encouraging students to fail with the overload and regimental bullshit. Many of us back in school didn't really study the subjects too well, we were focused mainly on survival and getting "C+" or "B-" ....
Rationing our time was a skill to learn. Getting guys to fail out was common. I had 2 roommates out of 5 who failed out.
If SUNY wants better graduation rates, they need to level the playing field with other SUNY programs: 15 credits per semester... Or, encourage some more marginal cadets to start out on a 5 year, 160 credit program. Otherwise many will continue to fail as always.
I think it's a lot of contributing factors why that place has as much success as a Cleveland sports team. 1) forget that it's anything like real SUNY college, accept the fact that's it's closer to a trade school then a college 2) have some leader ship that knows their asshole from a pot hole on the BQE. Stop bringing in people that want to enforce their ideas for ten mins before they move on. It's like cleaning the head with someone new shitting in the sink at the end of every watch. 3) if this is really a college, train your facility. If your an unlimited master, with more salt then Noah, that does not necessarily mean you're the best teacher.
The last one of hard for me to say. I have great respect for some of the instructors. Others not so much. But let's face facts, if the attrition rate is that high the the facility is failing the students.
Originally Posted by Starboard Ten
Same here, my MUG roommate and my 3/c roommate both failed out failed out. Except for the really motivated kids, not too many people are concerned about GPA, like you said just Survival. A lot of "D for Done", except license courses which you sometimes need 80s or 90s in.