Stuck with 100 ton master of towing now being stripped of it!!

[bigrig1972]

HELLO ALL MY NAME IS CHRIS.IM POSTING THIS TODAY TO ANY OF YOU WHO HAVE A MASTER OF TOWING 100 GROSS TONS NEAR COASTAL.I JUST PUT MY APPLICATION FOR RENEWAL TOGETHER AND UPON CALLING NMC VIRGINIA I WAS TO THAT "WE NO LONGER ISSUE THAT ENDORSEMENT AND WE WILL STRIP YOU OF THAT ENDORSEMENT AS SOON AS IT IS EVALUATED" I THEN ASKED WELL WHAT CAN I DO TO CHANGE THIS.AND I RECEIVED THIS ANSWER "YOULL HAVE TO START OVER AS A APPRENTICE MATE STEERSMAN AND FOLLOW THE NORMAL PROGRESSION TO MATE AND THEN TO MASTER."
I STARTED OUT IN THIS INDUSTRY IN 1998 AND QUICKLY GOT MY FIRST MATES JOB FOR A CO. IN MARYLAND.I ACCUMULATED 730 12 HOUR DAYS WITH THEM AS MATE ON A 198 GROSS TON TUG. THIS WAS BEFORE I HAD THE TOWING ENDORSEMENT.DURING THE "OLD RULES". I THEN DECIDED TO MOVE INTO THE ENGINE ROOM FOR THE NEXT 3 0R 4 YEARS. ACCUMULATING ANOTHER 1000 OR SO 12 HOUR DAYS. DURING THIS TIME I HAD HEARD THAT I NEEDED TO UPGRADE MY TICKET BUT I ALSO HEARD THE GRANDFATHERING WAS ENDING SOON.SOME TIME IN 2004 I WAS AT THE REC BOSTON AND THEY DECIDED THAT WITH MY SEA SERVICE TIME AND EXPERIENCE THEY WOULD STRETCH THE RULES A BIT AND GRANDFATHER ME.I HAD BEEN RUNNING UNDER THE AUTHORITY OF MY 200 TON MATES LICENSE BEFORE THE NEW RULES WENT INTO EFFECT.IN THIS TIME FRAME I NEVER SAILED AS CAPTAIN ON ANY TUG. JUST AS MATE. BUT AT THE REC THEY STAMPED MASTER OF TOWING 100 GROSS TONS BUT NO MATE OF TOWING. I FELT SOMETHING WAS STRANGE BECAUSE ALL MY EXPERIENCE WAS OVER 100 TONS TO DATE AND THEY WERE PUTTING THE 100 TON RESTRICTION ON ME.THEY NEVER OFFERED TO LET ME SIT FOR THE EXAMS EVERYONE ELSE WAS OFFERED TO GET THE MASTER OF TOWING ENDORSEMENT. SO I RELUCTANTLY ACCEPTED AND WENT BACK TO WORK.SAILING AND ACCUMULATING ANOTHER 500 OR 600 12 DAYS BACK IN THE WHEELHOUSE BUT NOW UNDER 100 TONS BECAUSE THATS ALL I COULD RUN NOW. IM CURRENTLY RUNNING AS MATE IN NEW YORK ON A 98 GROSS TON TUG AND HAVE BEEN WITH THE CO. STARTING MY 3RD YEAR. IM STUCK WITH THIS ENDORSEMENT AND I CANT GET THE RESTRICTION TAKEN OFF!! NOW NMC SAYS NOT ONLY CAN I NOT REMOVE OR UPGRADE OUT OF THE RESTRICTION BUT NOW THEY ARE GOING TO REMOVE THE 100 MASTER OF TOWING FROM MY LICENSE.
THEY SAID I HAVE BEEN OPERATING ILLEGALLY.(THEY GAVE ME THE ENDORSEMENT IVE DONE NOTHING WRONG OR ILLEGAL!!) WHEN I SAID I HAD 3 YOUNG CHILDREN 2 OF WHICH ARE SPECIAL NEEDS TO SUPPORT. A MORTGAGE AND A WIFE THE EVALUATOR SAID IM SORRY SIR BUT ALL I CAN TELL YOU IS YOUR GOING TO HAVE TO START FROM SCRATCH AS AN APPRENTICE STEERSMAN! AS YOU MAY IMAGING I WAS ON THE VERGE OF TEARS AS I WILL BE HOMELESS IN 5 MONTHS IF I LOSE MY JOB.ITS ALL I KNOW AND THERE IS NO WAY I CAN SURVIVE ON A NORMAL SALARY!!
HE SAID THERE IS A ALTERNATIVE OPTION. THAT IS TO SIT FOR A 500 MASTER GET A TOAR AND 90 DAYS TRAINING AND I COULD RUN ON THE AUTHORITY OF THE 500 TON MASTER. BUT AS YOU KNOW WORKING 7 AND 7 THERE IS NO WAY THAT I CAN GET THAT DONE BEFORE MY JULY 9TH 2009 EXPIRATION. SO IM PRETTY MUCH SCREWED. YOU CAN COME VISIT ME IN ROCKPORT THIS SUMMER I WILL BE LIVING WITH MY FAMILY IN THE WOODS SOMEWHERE HOMELESS. THANKS TO SOME BEAUTIFUL LAWS AND SCREWUPS THAT NOONE WILL STEP UP AND HELP ME WITH. I HAVE NOW CONTACTED CONGRESMAN IN 4 DIFFERENT STATES 2 SENATORS AND HAVE AQUIRED A PRO BONO ATTORNEY WHO SPECIALIZES IN MARITIME LAW. I HAVE AN APPEAL ALREADY WRITTEN UP AND IM SURE TO SEND IT IN AS SOON AS IM FORMERLY NOTIFIED THAT THEY ARE STRIPPING ME OF MY LIVELYHOOD.WHY SHOULD I BE RUINED FOR A MISTAKE THE COAST GUARD MADE? IF IN FACT I WAS GRANDFATHERED INCORRECTLY I CERTAINLY MET THE COAST GUARDS PRE 2001 REQUIREMENTS! I SIMPLY WAS A BIT LATE AND NOW AFTER 4 YEARS WITH THAT ENDORSEMENT AND AN UNMARRED RECORD (KNOCKS ON WOOD)IVE DONE NOTHING WRONG!! IM NOW AWAITING THE REJECTION FOR MY RECENTLY SUBMITTED APPLICATION AND MY JULY 9TH 2009 EXPIRATION IS QUICKLY APPROACHING.
IVE CONTACTED SEVRAL EVALUATORS AND THEY KEEP TELLING ME EITHER WE CANT HELP YOU OR WE DONT GIVE SPECIAL ATTENTION TO ANY ONE APPLICATION! WELL WHAT THE HELL DO YOU DO WHEN A MARINER HAS BEEN UNJUSTLY TREATED AND IS ABOUT TO BE THROWN A SERIOUS HARDSHIP FOR NOTHING MORE THAN A LACK OF GOOD EVALUATION! I NEED SOMEONE TO STEP UP AND HELP!! I PAY MY TAXES WHICH IN TURN PAYS FOR THE SAME SALARIES THAT ARE ABOUT TO PUT ME ON THE SIDEWALK IN A CARDBOARD BOX.
THE BEST ADVICE IVE GOTTEN TO DATE IS IF YOU DONT LIKE THE DECISION THEN FILE AN APPEAL. THAT IS JUST GREAT!! MY 3 BOYS WILL BE TAKEN FROM ME BECAUSE I CANT FEED THEM!!!! i hope these people are able to sleep at night! because some day they might need some help from someone.---------------im ruined. i havent slept well in over w month and my wife has told me outright that if i cant earn a living as a mariner than she was taking my boys and leaving me.

uscg has successfully broken a hard working by the book mariner whos only fault was going to work........ please send food and clothing to my kids.............................................. ...

[Captaincool]

I would try to contact SeaK and speak with Chuck 734-847-1723. I had an issue today and he was able to provide a solution for my License issue, he may be able to help.
Best regards,

[bigrig1972]

thanks for steping up and replying!! it is going to take alot of mariners to come together and fight injustices like this one. i will try anything now!!

[captjacksparrow]

BigRig1972, contact Richard Block of the National Mariners Association at (985)851-2134 or richardblock@nationalmariners.org right away and explain your situation to him. We've been dealing with this problem for a while but, if what you say is true, yours is the most extreme case I've heard of yet and absolutely warrants immediate attention.

I'm very sorry to hear this is happening to you. If this is the best that they can do then the CG really needs to just get out of the licensing business altogether before any more damage is done to the Merchant Marine.

[c.captain]

Contact your Congressman/woman to call the NMC on your behalf. I bet that gets some action from the pinheads there.

Also, have you researched 46CFR to see what is stipulated in there as far are towing vessel endorsements are concerned?

The very best of luck to you...I can only imagine your frustration and pray I naver go through the same in the future.

[captjacksparrow]

This was one of those areas that was not adequately addressed (to say the least) when the Master / Mate / Pilot of Towing Vessels license-scheme was created. Those who had been legally running tugs with 100GRT licenses ended up getting MOT with a 100GRT restriction. Now NMC apparently doesn't know what to do with them. This could be so simple.....just continue issuing them the same license (no rational reason not to) and leave them alone, or offer them an upgrade route to 200GRT via testing on the needed subjects and proving sea time on the appropriate route. There's no good reason for it to be this way, but it is.....

[LukeH]

If you have been given a response on your application and you do not agree with the decision, ask that the NMC reconsider their decision. If the decision has not been made, ask that the evaluator provide you specifically the basis under which they are saying they are removing your endorsement.

[bigrig1972]

thanks for ur support!! im in big trouble here!! besides being in jeopardy of losing my career i was just notified that my bmi was rejected on my application so i now have another hurdle to jump!! thanks and i do appreciate the reply

[bigrig1972]

thanks so much for ur support!! i will post results and or pics of my homeless family in july!! but i do thank you

[bigrig1972]

thanks for stepping up and offering advice!!!

[bigrig1972]

Thnks for ur support! I am working with mr. Block currently to make sure this doesnt continue to happen

[bigrig1972]

Yeah !! I wish but i am working with mr. Block. Its gonna be a long hard fought batle!!

[bigrig1972]

hello all my name is chris.im posting this today to any of you who have a master of towing 100 gross tons near coastal.i just put my application for renewal together and upon calling nmc virginia i was to that "we no longer issue that endorsement and we will strip you of that endorsement as soon as it is evaluated" i then asked well what can i do to change this.and i received this answer "youll have to start over as a apprentice mate steersman and follow the normal progression to mate and then to master."
i started out in this industry in 1998 and quickly got my first mates job for a co. In maryland.i accumulated 730 12 hour days with them as mate on a 198 gross ton tug. This was before i had the towing endorsement.during the "old rules". I then decided to move into the engine room for the next 3 0r 4 years. Accumulating another 1000 or so 12 hour days. During this time i had heard that i needed to upgrade my ticket but i also heard the grandfathering was ending soon.some time in 2004 i was at the rec boston and they decided that with my sea service time and experience they would stretch the rules a bit and grandfather me.i had been running under the authority of my 200 ton mates license before the new rules went into effect.in this time frame i never sailed as captain on any tug. Just as mate. But at the rec they stamped master of towing 100 gross tons but no mate of towing. I felt something was strange because all my experience was over 100 tons to date and they were putting the 100 ton restriction on me.they never offered to let me sit for the exams everyone else was offered to get the master of towing endorsement. So i reluctantly accepted and went back to work.sailing and accumulating another 500 or 600 12 days back in the wheelhouse but now under 100 tons because thats all i could run now. Im currently running as mate in new york on a 98 gross ton tug and have been with the co. Starting my 3rd year. Im stuck with this endorsement and i cant get the restriction taken off!! Now nmc says not only can i not remove or upgrade out of the restriction but now they are going to remove the 100 master of towing from my license.
They said i have been operating illegally.(they gave me the endorsement ive done nothing wrong or illegal!!) when i said i had 3 young children 2 of which are special needs to support. A mortgage and a wife the evaluator said im sorry sir but all i can tell you is your going to have to start from scratch as an apprentice steersman! As you may imaging i was on the verge of tears as i will be homeless in 5 months if i lose my job.its all i know and there is no way i can survive on a normal salary!!
He said there is a alternative option. That is to sit for a 500 master get a toar and 90 days training and i could run on the authority of the 500 ton master. But as you know working 7 and 7 there is no way that i can get that done before my july 9th 2009 expiration. So im pretty much screwed. You can come visit me in rockport this summer i will be living with my family in the woods somewhere homeless. Thanks to some beautiful laws and screwups that noone will step up and help me with. I have now contacted congresman in 4 different states 2 senators and have aquired a pro bono attorney who specializes in maritime law. I have an appeal already written up and im sure to send it in as soon as im formerly notified that they are stripping me of my livelyhood.why should i be ruined for a mistake the coast guard made? If in fact i was grandfathered incorrectly i certainly met the coast guards pre 2001 requirements! I simply was a bit late and now after 4 years with that endorsement and an unmarred record (knocks on wood)ive done nothing wrong!! Im now awaiting the rejection for my recently submitted application and my july 9th 2009 expiration is quickly approaching.
Ive contacted sevral evaluators and they keep telling me either we cant help you or we dont give special attention to any one application! Well what the hell do you do when a mariner has been unjustly treated and is about to be thrown a serious hardship for nothing more than a lack of good evaluation! I need someone to step up and help!! I pay my taxes which in turn pays for the same salaries that are about to put me on the sidewalk in a cardboard box.
The best advice ive gotten to date is if you dont like the decision then file an appeal. That is just great!! My 3 boys will be taken from me because i cant feed them!!!! I hope these people are able to sleep at night! Because some day they might need some help from someone.---------------im ruined. I havent slept well in over w month and my wife has told me outright that if i cant earn a living as a mariner than she was taking my boys and leaving me.

Uscg has successfully broken a hard working by the book mariner whos only fault was going to work........ Please send food and clothing to my kids.............................................. ...

i was given a federal grant to retrain commercial fisherman.i received the licenses that were offered to me through that grant and immediately started working once i finished my classes in 1998.im very curious by this situation now.after taking me out of my job as a fisherman im now threatened to lose the very job i was promised to have a long career in. My grant was over 20,000 dollars. Just thought id let taxpayers know what they did to us commercial fisherman!! With your tax dollars. Now i will no doubt call on more tax dollars to once again retrain me to work in a industry that i wont be thrown out of after 10 incident free yrs. Thanks uscg!!!! Im another one of your successful screw ups!! Great job with your rule making!! Awesome policies!!! Man im so excited to go on welfare and be another victim!!!! Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh i guess hard work and good ethics just dont cut it when your up against the man... "the man giveth and the man taketh away"

[bullyjohn]

Any news or word on your ticket

[ConsultantG]

Chris,
Is all your looking for is to renew? What does your license state completely? You will NOT have to start over with an apprentice mate! According to the NEW REGULATIONS published by the Sept. 11, 2008 Federal Register:

Individuals holding 100/200 Master licenses will have an alternative way to obtain a towing vessel Mate license. They can upgrade any MASTER license under 200 GRT to Towing Vessel Mate if they:

Have 36 months of service on the Master license, AND
30 days of training and observation on the desired route (90 on Western Rivers), AND
Complete a TOAR appropriate to the route,AND
Pass an Apprentice Mate exam

Although you were limited to the tonnage of your original license, you didn't have to test or do a TOAR, correct? You should be able, under these new rules, to make application for an "unlimited" tonnage towing license, but you will have to take a full exam and do the TOAR.

You do have a grace period of 1 year, but can't work until you are renewed. This may be the quickest way for you to go. Considering all the experience and sea time you have, all you will need is a TOAR and to decide whether you would like to test at the CG or attend a CG approved school. A school would be around 2000.00, 15 days, but you would test there in luei of the CG...and ofcourse all your other application paperwork.

[jdcavo]

Any news or word on your ticket

His license was renewed April 27th. His alarmist "the sky is falling" accusations about NMC were unfounded.

[Capt_Anonymous]

His license was renewed April 27th. His alarmist "the sky is falling" accusations about NMC were unfounded.

I kinda figured, since we've never heard from him since.

[Capt. Nemo]

His license was renewed April 27th. His alarmist "the sky is falling" accusations about NMC were unfounded.

I'm not sure it should have been renewed. What a piece of work!

Nemo

[Matt6061]

This Is still a big issue for myself and others! I was told today NO answer could be given until another App was submitted. (NMC Help desk-? on Sea Service) I have held a 100 Ton Master Of Towing NC/WR since 2003! The NMC is working on the problem as we speak however according to the local REC.

[dmc]

I call BS on this thread........

Ever since the OUTV License (Operator of Uninspected Towing Vessels), became MOTV (Master Of Towing Vessels), there has been no such 100 Ton GRT Tonnage Limitation. Either you had the License of you didn't. The only tonnage limitation was less than 200 GRT Near Coastal. And that was under the old OUTV Scheme. The Current Tonnage Limitation if you qualify for Near Coastal is less than 300 GRT. (If you want to argue this tonnage limitation please call NMC West Virginia, that is where I got the info from)

Any REC that issued this License with a 100GRT tonnage limitation, was doing so contrary to the Language of the license.

There are plenty of people that have a 100 GRT Masters license that also hold a MOTV. The mitigating question in this matter prior to the door being closed in 2004. " Did you take the MOTV test"?